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kzucker
07-30-2004, 10:24 PM
Hi.

Playtesting is continuing and interesting ideas are still coming out, mainly involving the Victory Conditions. We usually save Victory Conditions till last!

Please let me know if you have any comments about the proposed three changes. You know where to find the rules pdf. Thanks!

I have been thinking about the Victory Conditions. I think people like the sort of conditions that go beyond how many strength points killed, to reflect on the significace of their performance in geopolitical terms.

When I designed the 1807 game, I realized that it was impossible to construct Victory Conditions without making reference to the Geopolitical goals of the nations: Why were they fighting? This put you, as theater commander, in appropriate relation to the overall strategy of your government.

Since that time I have always looked at the reasons both sides had for fighting, and to define them, if I could, in terms of the Victory Conditions.

This 1809 game is much more in traditional terms (i.e., how many men lost). Of course, the cost of a victory has everything to do with the consequences of the campaign. I have defined victory in terms of absolute SPs lost by the Austrians, the ratio of losses vs. the French, baggage lost and Corps Demoralized. In addition, Supply Sources are important.

Ratisbon was of major significance but is not mentioned in the victory conditions.

Thus, the first change and most important: The Austrian Player (only) receives one VP for each Danube bridge controlled (a maximum of five).

20.15 now looks so (*_Shows inserted text_*):

20.15 Control: Each Player receives one point for each Friendly Supply Source not controlled by the Enemy at the end of the scenario. *_In addition, the Austrian Player (only) receives one VP for each Danube bridge controlled (a maximum of five possible VPs)._* To be considered in control of one of these hexes, a friendly Combat Unit must physically occupy the hex, or be the last Combat Unit to have occupied or moved through it. (If the Enemy controls it, place a Control Marker in the hex.) If the occupying unit is Out of Supply at the moment it enters or moves through the hex, the hex is not controlled.

The other changes involve the Bavarians. Strategically, Bavaria was attacked in hopes of raising all Germany in revolt. Davout was worried about the Bavarians and early on he thought Wrede had betrayed them.

2. The Austrian Player gains 2 VPs if the Bavarian VII Corps is demoralized

Change- add to the exception at 20.13

EXCEPTION: The Austrian Player receives 5VPs if Davout‘s III Corps is demoralized, *_and 2 VPs if VII Corps is demoralized,_* at the end of play.

3. Demoralized Bavarian units reorganize differently ...

Change- Add exception at end 12.24-
EXCEPTION: Bavarian demoralized units must pass an Initiative check (e.g., Pr. Royal and Deroy must roll "1" or "2.")

4. Since we are giving more opportunities for the Austrians to get VPs, we will have to adjust the Ratio of Points (win column) slightly in the French favor

kzucker
07-30-2004, 10:27 PM
Officers' Mess!

Though it is discouraging to lose your Supply Line, capturing the enemy's supplies negates most of that effect.

add new rule

14.34 OOS: If an out of supply unit captures an enemy baggage train the unit's OOS marker is removed.
If the enemy baggage is captured by a larger force, all friendly out-of-supply forces which participated in the capture remove their OOS Markers.


(You cannot move or control an enemy baggage train. Once captured it is PEU.)


14.1 (Tracing) change

C. To another Friendly Baggage Train. No more than one unit of a different formation *- the nearest one out of supply) -* may trace to each Friendly Baggage Train. EXCEPTION: Any number of Independent units may trace to a friendly Baggage Train (see 17.2).

kzucker
07-30-2004, 11:14 PM
As the Austrian Player, you can gain a point or more for keeping your losses very low (under 36 SPs). And if you can keep your losses proportionally about equal to the French, you can gain another point.

Then you can gain a VP for each Enemy Corps Demoralized. If the two French Corps that start the game on the map are demoralized, you can gain even more. The extra point for the Bavarians should encourage an aggressive early advance by the Austrians, something they will need if they are to accomplish Kaiser Franz’s goals for the war. Captured Baggage Trains also yield one VP each. You gain VPs for each of your own Supply Sources in your control at the end of the game, and any enemy Supply Sources you control denies points to the French player. Finally, you get points for each Bridge over the Danube that you control. There are five of these, and two of them (Ingolstadt and Ratisbon) also contain French Supply Sources.

As the French Player, you will strive to maintain an advantage in ratio of strength points lost ( vs Charles) of at least 1.5 to 1, to score 1 VP, at the same time eliminating at least 41 Strength Points of Austrians for 2 more VPs. Like the Austrian Player you get points for enemy corps demoralized and baggage trains captured. Most importantly, you will want to delay the Austrians as much as you can without losing more than one Bavarian Division (to make sure you are not surrounded, remove Deroy’s division up the road at the first opportunity).

The following table is the (just revised) level of victory based upon the comparison of the two sides' VP scores at the end of play:

20.21 Ratio of Victory Points (French : Austrian)
less than 1 : 2 Austrian Decisive Victory
less than 1 : 1 Austrian Victory
less than 1.5 : 1 Draw
less than 2.5 : 1 French Victory
2.5 : 1+ French Decisive Victory

If the Austrian Player has one more VP at the end of the game than the French Player, he wins the game. The French Player will need to out-achieve his opponent by 50% to win a 'Victory.'

Jeffrey Arnold
07-31-2004, 10:24 AM
Kevin,

One question comes to mind immediately: How do these vicrory levels reflect the historical result? In other words, what level of victory did the French obtain (using this scale)? Also, can this be replicated in the game?

kzucker
07-31-2004, 04:09 PM
Jeffrey,

The campaign was a French Victory, but calculating that exactly is difficult because we don't know the status of the Austrian Army at the moment the 'game ends.' We know the OB for the Austrian Left Wing at Ebelsberg on 3 May, as follows:

V CORPS
Lindenau (e)
Reuss 9000 (more than full strength)
Schustekh 1800 Reduced
Radetzky 1900 Reduced

VI CORPS
Kottulinsky 3100 Reduced
Vincent 2600 way-Reduced (could count as elim.)
Reinwald (absorbed)
Nordmann 2800 Reduced
Schiebler (e)

II Reserve Corps
d'Aspre 3800 Full
Schneller 1100 Reduced

If you count those reduced units as having reorganized before they left the map then they would not count as eliminated for Victory purposes. The four units that would count for sure would be Schiebler (1 SP), Reinwald (3), Vincent (12), and Lindenau (11), for a total of 27 SPs lost by the left wing. The Right wing (including I Corps which did not engage) still had 90,000 men after the game ends; my guess is that would include at least 12 to 18 SPs lost. Grand Total: between 39 and 45 SPs, which means a loss of 2 VPs.

On other points, if you count Charles as still holding Ratisbon at the end of the game, he has two VPs for that, plus two for holding two friendly Supply Sources.

Net VP score for the Austrians: 2 VPs.

Then we have to look at the French. They lost the 65th Regiment (2 SPs), plus maybe some Bavarian cavalry, and some misc. units, say 10 or 12 SPs. The French get 3 VPs for the imbalance in losses (about 4:1). They hold four friendly supply sources (4 VPs), and captured two enemy baggage trains (2 VPs). At least two enemy corps were demoralized (2 VPs).

Net VP score for the French: 11 VPs.

Anything better than 2.5:1 is a French Decisive Victory...

Jeffrey Arnold
07-31-2004, 04:42 PM
Kevin,

Thanks for the analysis. I get the impression that the Austrians need to make a determined effort to inflict casualties on the French if they want to win the game. Does playtesting support this conclusion?

kzucker
08-01-2004, 01:43 PM
Jeffrey,

They certainly need to be more determined than the Austrians were historically.