Q&A on Seven Days of 1809

[kzucker]

The attached "Highlights" include some potential questions, a few design notes, and an optional rule.

Some copies of the game (mainly shipped to stores overseas) did not include the Highlights page.

[rocket]

Kevin,

I am really impressed with your great production "Seven Days of 1809", which I have received last week - very enjoyable!

The rules are very clear as well - just a few questions:

1) Commanders like Davout, Massena and Liechtenstein - all with a command rating of [1] - are considered to be officers of their corps at the same time. Does that mean they can each command (a) their own corps, (b) an officer of another corps and (c) any single combat unit of another formation? Or can they merely command (a) their own corps and (b) any single combat unit of another formation?
A) (a) their own corps and (b) any single combat unit of another formation

2) Commanders Lannes and Bessieres may form ad-hoc corps (any French unit stacked with them at the time). Are they OBLIGED to command such units stacked with them as an ad-hoc corps or could they, for example, nevertheless decide to (a) command one combat unit stacked with them (or any other single combat unit in range) and (b) an officer of another corps?
A) Good point. No, not obliged.

3) Units in Road March are forced to make a repulse attempt when entering an EZOC (Rule 8.22 B.). Are they allowed to enter the EZOC even if they do not have enough MPs left to enter the hex occupied by the other unit (which is a precondition for a repulse under Rule 10.1)?
A) No.

4) My understanding is that for the reassembly of a light cavalry unit that has been broken up into two vedettes, TWO additional MPs are required: One extra MP for stacking the two vedettes, and another under Rule 13.12. Correct? I suppose the same applies for mixed type units taking up their vedettes ...
A) Yes.

5) Breakdown of Divisions into Brigades (Rule 16.5): When breaking up a division into brigades, can the reduced strength marker of that division be used next to the generic brigade counters (named A, B, C, etc.)? Can the reduced strength markers of those generic brigades be used straight away if necessary? For instance, could a division with 13 strength points split up into (a) its reduced strength marker with a value of 7 strength points, (b) the full strength marker of Brigade X with a value of 3 strength points and (c) the reduced strength marker of Brigade Y with a value of 2 strength points? I think that would be the proper solution, because it creates utmost flexibility ... Also, that is the only way in which Neubronn of Vandamme's VIII corps can break up into brigades (there is only one generic G brigade of his colour).
A) Yes to all. Maximum flexibility.

6) Under Rule 19.26, Vedettes may be deployed instead of their parent units at the beginning of a scenario. Does the same apply for infantry divisions, i.e. can they be replaced by generic brigades (Rule 16.5) at the beginning of a scenario?
A) No.

7) Under the Reorganization Rules (Rule 6.0), a unit suffering elimination in combat at one end of the map may reappear (at reduced strength) at the other end of the map, if only an eligible leader is situated there. Should there not be a restriction regarding the maximum distance between the place in which the unit was eliminated and the place where its remnants are reorganized by a leader?
A) We thought about that and the problem is ... bookkeeping. But you are right, it can get strange. However, I don't think it will become some sort of strategem by which players do a major 'airlift.'

Thanks a lot! And as I said: It's an excellent game, I really enjoy it!

Lutz

[kzucker]

5.24 Capture May Occur After Ae or De Result
A Leader may be captured in a "De" (if defending) or "Ae" (if attacking) Combat Result, using the same procedure as defined in 5.22. If he is not captured, the leader must displace to the nearest friendly unit. If there is no friendly unit within the Leader's Movement Allowance, he may move to any hex within his MA (according to 8.0 movement).

5.23 Capture Die Roll Modifiers (Delete modifiers)
This rule is deleted. All Leaders are captured on a 6 (no modifiers).

7.45 Forces Removed from March Orders (Delete sentence in quotes)
"For the remainder of the Friendly Player Turn, the force is Demoralized (see 12.0)." (A Force is removed from a March Order before it can engage.)

7.45 (add)
D. If the force bumps into a friendly Road March column (see 8.22D).

19.24 Bridge and Baggage Trains (clarification, exception)
Several have asked where the Baggage Trains set-up. The answer is here. Exception: Davout's Baggage Train (of the French III Corps) can always set-up on the map (despite the fact that parts of the Corps have not yet arrived).

MARCH TABLES
Here are the unit positions that have changed (so far) as a result of new information revealed in "the History as Game:"

1. Scheibler (Aus VI) on 17 April: 2229

2. Lefebvre, Pr. Royal, and Zandt (Bav) on 17 April: 0608 Reichertshofen.

3. Lefebvre and Pr. Royal on 18 April: 1311 Geisenfeld.

4. Radetzky (Aus V) on 17 April: 2825 Weihmichel

5. Vecsey (Aus IV) on 19 April: 4415 Eckmühl

6. Oudinot, Colbert, Tharreau, Claparede on 20 Apr: in a Road Column at 2409, 2209 and 2009.

7. Friant (Fr III) on 18 Apr: Reinf. Afternoon 4501

[kzucker]

If both sides are exactly equal in strength points then both sides lose at least 50% of their Combat Strength.

[kzucker]

From Gary Phillips:

I really enjoyed 1809. I tend to prefer games that give players complicated problems with simple mechanics, while still capturing as much of the history as possible, and by all means 1809 is a success at that.

In our game, I sent vedettes towards Landshut to support Deroy at the bridges. The Austrians, once they forced a crossing, ignored those units. Since the vedettes were soon out of supply, and had an initiative of 2, I needed a '1' to get them moving again, so they sat there for days, doing nothing.

1) Was I interpreting the rules correctly (vedette goes out, gets judged OOS that night, from then on is initiative minus one)?
A) Until it restores supply, correct.
2) If so, doesn't this make them somewhat less useful as scouts, since they will have to remain near the baggage train by night fall to keep from getting stranded? Was this historical (i.e. were they usually NOT sent 20 or 30 miles ahead to see what was out there, but kept nearer to home, or if they were sent out that far, they usually came back by night?)
A) They will have to return home in the evening. They had to return and report back. If they stay away and become Out of Supply, they are considered Demoralized, and have to roll to determine whether they can Reorganize (see 12.24)— on a "5" or "6" the unit is permanently eliminated. This means you won't be able to have vedettes ranging freely far and wide for days on end. They are on a relatively short tether. Generally they operated right close to the main force.
3) Was Leigh making a mistake ignoring them (if I did roll a '1' could they have caused trouble in his rear area by blocking bridges, etc?)
A) You may be on to something.

[kzucker]

More from Gary:
I know much less about Napoleon's campaigns than I do the Civil War, and I wasn't sure how to interpret the March Order rules when an Austrian Corps' leading unit, a vedette, entered the ZOC of a French unit. According to the rules, this halts the Corps for that turn and also terminates the March Order.

I used the example of The Gamers Civil War Brigade series. In CWBS there are two types of orders you can give a Corps. One is a complex order, which is any order that will bring you into contact with the enemy, such as advance down Taneytown Pike and seize Hunter's Ridge. The other is a simple order, used to move troops from Point A to Point B. In a simple order, your command is told to proceed to a certain point (town, geographic feature, whatever). You are not expected to make contact with the enemy. If you are moving under a simple order and you make any contact with the enemy, you immediately cease and go into a status of no orders. You may defend your self, but to attack you need to either get orders (and accept them) or get initiative (much harder in these games, but the turns are only a half hour long).

I was interpreting March Orders as something akin to Simple Orders; i.e., you are to proceed to a point and await further orders. If you make contact with the enemy you must use Initiative to decide what to do. Leigh was really trying to get those two Corps to where he wanted them, so even when the vedette of one of the corps bounced of a French infantry division that was probing the head of the column, he was trying to calculate a MP path that would carry the Corps to its March Order objective, rather than scrap the March Order and start rolling for Initiative (or get Charles involved).

A) I recall that situation. I remember ruling that Leigh could continue moving the forces of that corps for that turn, even though it doesn't say that in the rules. we might want to revisit that ruling. It is interesting to contrast the March Orders with the Simple Orders in the Gamers System. In any case, that March Order is history once the enemy is encountered.

Here's a suggestion: Let the Corps Officer roll for initiative at the moment his force encounters the enemy. Then, if he succeeds, for the remainder of that turn he can continue moving freely any of his units under the march order which haven't moved already (not including the unit that actually hit the enemy ZOC).

The March Order in 7D09 is trying to encompass both the Simple and Complex Orders in one. So you can give a March Order objective that is in the rear of enemy units, knowing that the units will certainly run into the enemy. So we need a bit more flexibility in our March Order than in the basic Simple Order.

Q) Re: the French III Corps baggage train. Does it deploy with the Corps on the afternoon of the 16th, or does it arrive with the last unit of the Corps. I think the description in the scenario instructions supports the latter interpretation, but if so it does handcuff Davout to the region of Regensburg for a couple of days, which may be historical.

A) That's a very good point. We've already posted this in the Q&A above (10/24/04). Davout's baggage train starts in Regensburg. You're right that according to the published rules it would have to be the last unit of the corps to enter the map - III Corps' baggage is an exception to that rule.

[kzucker]

Changes in the effects of enemy units on repair.

A. If either end of the bridge is occupied by an enemy Combat Unit, the repair die roll is increased by +2.

C. If either end of the bridge is in an EZOC, the repair die roll is increased by +1.

(B and D remain unchanged).

[kzucker]

2.11 B. Movement Phase, Initiative
Initiative Modifier (Sound of Guns)
Delete this rule.

In Seven Days of 1809 the French don't need it: they have abundant command. For them it can even be a hazard. The Austrians shouldn't be able to use it. In 1806, where it can still be used by the French (only), it should be modified to read …
"...by the quickest route possible to engage in the nearest battle, or draw to within two hexes (if possible) of the nearest engaged enemy unit."

[kzucker]

We have collected all the Q&A into one quick reference.

[kzucker]

Kevin, here are some thoughts:

* 1.51, Revealing Hidden Forces: seems to me that revealing to the
nearest 10SP is too imprecise. Maybe the nearest 5? By the by: I like
the options on vedette scouting in 13.42. Tres cool.

* 5.17, Ad-hoc Corps: (1) I allow Lannes and Bessieres to operate as
'normal' corps commanders -- they can command forces within range, not
just those with which they are stacked.
(2) Might be useful to specifically state that they cannot command
another corps officer.

* 7.4, March Orders: I love the march order idea, but this has caused
me more head-scratching than any other aspect of this system. If
cavalry leads the column, do they just loiter around the destination
hex until the rest of the corps arrives? What are the mechanics after
the first infantry/mixed unit reaches the destination hex? My friend
and I just ad hoc things = first unit stops at destination and others
are allowed to "catch up" with no further commands needed.

March Tables:
20 April: we may have discussed this (my memory fails here), but if
not.....
* Oudinot's troops awoke near Pfaffenhofen on the morning of 20 April
after their engagement there on the 19th. Tharreau's division and two
of Colbert's regiments were NE of Pfaffenhofen on the road to
Geisenfeld (say, hex 0516, no one has an exact location); Oudinot
himself with Claparede's division, one of Colbert's regts (9th Hussars)
and the Baden light dragoons were SE of Pfaffenhofen at approx. 0521.
* The rest of Massena's men were in/around Pfaffenhofen: say 0216 for
Legrand/Marulaz, and 0116 for St. Cyr (no problem with leaving Boudet
off-map to start, maybe Molitor as well > their exact locations are not
clear.
* Tharreau and Colbert's two chasseur regts marched toward Neustadt on
the 20th, apparently arriving very late at night (midnight?). Boudet
joined them. Claparede and the 9th Hussars continued to Landshut with
Massena. Oudinot did not catch up with Tharreau until the 21st.
* Now, what we may have discussed (my memory has not improved in the
past three minutes) is that game mechanics make it difficult to send
Boudet with Oudinot, so keeping II Corps together makes things much
easier. However, might it be useful to point this out to the playing
public?

Cheers, jack

PS. Really enjoy all the game discussion > great that you have
published this: a fascinating situation, great game system, and
tasteful, attractive production.

[kzucker]

Jack,

Thanks for your kind comments. They mean a lot. We had already addressed II Corps locations on 20 April, (message above, from 10-24-04) as follows:

6. Oudinot, Colbert, Tharreau, Claparede on 20 Apr: in a Road Column at 2409, 2209 and 2009.

Now that we've got them pinned down, we can change that again...

6. revised- a) Oudinot and Claparede on 20 Apr: 0521. b) Tharreau and Colbert on 20 Apr, 0521. c) Tharreau and Colbert on 21 Apr, Neustadt (2508).

[Jim Anderson]

Posted here for all...
Email sent by me to Kevin with his response.

Kevin,

Mark Calhoun (Austrians) and I are playing 7 Days of 1809. The attached picture is the question. Mark's attack "B" is against two separate hexes. Defending in one hex is French Infantry, the other hex has French Light Cavalry.

Could the Cavalry retreat before combat, since it is not stacked with the infantry (in which case it would be prohibited)?

Thanks,

Jim

P.S. Kevin's answer was YES.

[kzucker]

Thanks to Dick Vohlers for taking the time & interest to put together these two:
1. A few additional questions & answers (changes)
2. An in-depth game summary to guide you through the game-turn step by step.