Combat
 

Hi,

I am new to the game serie and I enjoy it. The command and logistical systems are great. Nonetheless there is a big flaw in my opinion, the combat system. It is very obscure and I can say that every new combat was stranger than the previous one... I am using the consolidated rules downloaded from the webgrognard. First the combat table is not linked with the amount of figthing troops. So 1 or 2 thousand men forces automatically annihilate each others at the first round of the battle. On the contrary the
clash of tenths of thousand men forces don't generate more casualties et so battle is supposed to last longer. Which is not evident, in Bonaparte in Italy 90% Percent of the battles I fought lasted only one round whatever the size of the opposing forces and none of them reached the 3rd round. Artillery is
useless compare to the lethality of regular combat. I use it primarily to sustain the losses.
Here is an example of combat I fought in Bonaparte in Italy:
Kilmaine is in 2916, Wurmser and Davidovitch move to 2915. Masséna makes an initiative roll and moves to 3015 in forced march. Wurmser in pitched battle attacks Masséna at 1-1 ratio and looses. So Masséna has to counterattack against both Wurmser and Davidovitch. At 1-2 he looses badly and retreat. Davidovitch attacks Kilmaine who sustains the same fate. Both sides had the same size in SP but the French had no chance to win because the counterattack is devastating for the defender most of the time. One could say that the Austrian cheated because he had to consolidate his forces and Davidovitch had to be subordinated to Wurmser. But in that case how can Wurmser attack 2 hexes with one force? Maybe Masséna should have moved to Kilmaine's hex but in that case combat is a mere clash of big piles of units. There is no need to form a line of battle which is suppose to be better to commit more troops at once.

So does anyone uses the combat system as it is? How do you do that? I am sure I missed something...

Anyway, I am working on a much simpler system. Basicaly each opponent commits more and more SP each round, a roll on a table gives the losses based on the total SP committed. Artillery is used as a regular SP and gives the possibility to shift column on the battle table by spending adm points. At the end of each turn the side who wants to withdrawn has to make an initiative roll, a failure will increase the losses. I keep the retreat and battle dynamic systems almost unchanged because they are interesting.

I agree about that flaw.
I`ve just made my first battle and forces disappear in no time.

I started to 'read' results from Combat Results Table in other way. Here it is.
French 2c and 5i vs Russian 3c and 10i.
7:13=1:2
Roll 4 and you get 3-1, insted of 'reading' it like 'loosing x SP' read it like 'inflicted x % from your forces'. So French would loose 30% from Russian forces 13x0.3=3.9=4 SP and Russians would loose 10% from French forces 7x0.1=0.7=1 SP. So if you have bigger army you will inflict more casaulties. (This system was used in Empires in Arms). And now if forces would be 1 or 2SP they wont kill each other in one phase cause they dont have 'power' to do that.

French 3SP vs Russian 2SP
1:1 roll 2 -> 1-3 so French would lost 2x0.1=0.2=0 and Russians would lost 3x0.3=0.9=1 SP.

What do you think about it?

Actually that's smart, I didn't think of that. I am going to try it in my next game. but the table is still too harsh. for example I attack 5 SP with 15 SP, I roll a 6 and I loose 70% of my troops (11SP) while the defender looses nothing... I'll test it anyway because it is a simple and elegant improvement of the system (I'll see if all the percentage calculations are not too annoying).

I'll try to post soon a comprehensive text about a new system. Here are some ideas. Each round attacker and defender roll 2 dice. One for inflicting losses:
Die 1 2 3 4 5 6
FP
1 - 2 .4 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2
3 - 5 .6 .4 .4 .2 .2 .2
6 - 9 .8 .6 .6 .4 .4 .2
9 -13 1 .8 .6 .6 .4 .4
14-17 2 1 .8 .6 .6 .4
18-23 3 2 1 .8 .6 .6
24-30 4 3 2 1 .8 .8
30-36 5 4 3 2 1 1
37-… 6 5 4 3 2 2

and one to determine the winner. The initiative rating of the leader is added to this roll, the greatest result win the round. I still have to work on the dice modifiers.

Basically a battle begins with the commitment of a force. Each round the force may engage up to 5 new SP (by committing divisions) per Hexside it wants to attack. Defender reacts by commiting up to 5 SP per attacked hexside. New forces can commit divisions by making an initiative roll. If a force can't commit SP against an attacked hexside it is force to retreat. The retreat system is kept with minor changes.

Yes 70% is a big number but
1) You had 1-3 ratio
2) If weaker side have taken 'pitched battle' then they ask for it, if they would have taken 'pursuit' they could retreat and hope to loose less and to survive.
3) There is this rule which I have founded in consolidated rulebook:
Pitched Loss Greater than Total Force
[358.] If the losing Force has insufficient SPs to absorb the losses called for on the CRT, resolve the round as a Pursuit battle, regardless of the Battle marker. Example: A Force of six SPs plays Pitched in spite of the fact that it is attacked by 36 SPs. It then receives a Combat Result greater than it has SPs. Instead of taking the losses, the losing Force retreats that number of hexes. The victor may then Pursue.

In this case it would be realistic. Such small forces would retreat against such big one and lost many in retreat, rather to day like at Borodino many did :-).

I know this rule. But in my example I have 15 SP against 5 SP so I am attacking by 3 to 1 and I chose pitched battle of course. So I have no mean to avoid the losses. Of course loosing 7 SP with the reguler rules or 70% with your rule while the defender looses nothing is the same nonsense. Whatever the rule you apply to it, the table will still produce weird results...

hmm I have TETE 1807 CRT and 3:1, roll 6, gives me 3-3 not 7-0 ... there is 0-7 on modified roll 0 .. (?)

There is 7-0 on 1-3 ratio..

Counter Attackinig
 

Hi. I am not sure if this is correct but my reading of the rules (para 262 step 13) says the counterattacking force does not have to attack all the original attacking force but only the strongest force (hex). If I am reading it correctly that may help you out some. Also, artillery is useful for decreasing the size of the attacking force as loses are taken immediately before the odds are determined and the combat resolved, though I agree it is rare to inflict a loss using artillery. Enjoy.

Yes I mixed up some columns. So Nico your variant works well. I am supposed to have a game tomorrow so I'll try it soon.

Yes the defender only has to counterattack the strongest hex. But if the attacker is only in one hex it doesn't change anything. Anyway, the defender has to withhold part of his troops against the non attacked hexes, so the ratio doesn't change dramatically... most of the time the defender counterattacks knowing he will be crushed.

So weaker side could takie 'pursuit' battle, hoping that winner wont do harsh pursuit (and some SP will be saved) cause it would put him in bad position etc.

Optional Heavy Cavalry Charge
 

I appreciated your discussion about Counterattacks, above. We added the "Refuse" Battle type to make it possible for a force to skip its counterattack. That was added to the system with Sun of Austerlitz. So that if it meets the requirements a force can avoide counterattacking now.

(By the way, the CRT gives the proper losses if you use it correctly. It may seem counterintuitive, but losses do not go up in tandem with the amount of forces involved. That is generally true whether you are talking about the Knights at Tannenburg or the Battle of Britain. The more troops in one place, the larger the percentage who will be just going through the motions. It is not like the movies, and 99% of wargames, they are a distortion. Most combattants watch to see whether their biggest and bravest compatriots will live.)

The following rule is a rough draft and leaves lots of questions open...

HEAVY CAVALRY IN COMBAT [OPTIONAL RULE]

(Must be used with Reserve Option.)
When using this rule heavy cavalry are not included in the force total when determining the odds on the CRT. Each Heavy Cavalry unit may make one Cavalry Charge per battle.
At any point in any Round of Combat a player with HC may declare a Cavalry Charge. There is a special table for this (see below). The charging units are designated and one unit is selected to receive the charge. The charged unit must be infantry. This unit either breaks or it will "Reform Forward." If it breaks its strength is added to the Reserve. If it reforms forward the HC must charge again at 1/2 strength (after losses from the charge are deducted).

CHARGE TABLE

Die 1 2-3 4-5 6-7 8+ Die
0 1/1
1
2
etc.

KEY: first# shows cavalry loss; second # shows defending infantry loss.
RF = Reforms Forward; B = Breaks (committed to Reserve)